What happens when one of the largest centralized property managers in short-term rentals meets a deeply local, franchise-driven model? In this episode of The STR Data Lab, AirDNA’s Chief Economist Jamie Lane sits down with Steve Schwab, CEO of Casago, to unpack one of the most consequential industry shifts of the past decade: the Vacasa–Casago merger.
Steve shares an honest, behind-the-scenes look at how the integration is unfolding — from transitioning thousands of homes and teammates to rethinking how scale, culture, and accountability actually work in hospitality. The conversation goes beyond headlines to explore why local ownership, empowered teams, and owner-centric decision-making may be the antidote to the operational strain that has challenged large STR operators in recent years.
Along the way, Jamie and Steve dive into franchise economics, technology complexity, churn as a health metric, and the often-underestimated skill that separates top-tier operators from the rest. Whether you’re an independent host, a growing property manager, or an industry professional watching STR evolve in real time, this episode offers a rare perspective on where the business is headed — and what it takes to build something that lasts.
This is one conversation that will change how you think about scale, leadership, and success in short-term rentals — you don’t want to miss it.
Key Takeaways You Can Apply Today
- Local ownership matters more than ever: Empowered, in-market operators create stronger relationships with homeowners, guests, and communities — and reduce churn.
- Scale isn’t just about size: Breaking operations into locally accountable units can avoid the “dis-economies” that plague centralized models.
- Technology complexity is the silent killer: From PMS integrations to revenue management and accounting, STR operations are far deeper than they appear — especially in year one.
- Churn is a health check, not just a metric: Monitoring churn at both the market and portfolio level reveals operational and cultural issues early.
- The best operators know when to say no: Curating the right inventory, homeowners, and guests is often what separates top-performing property managers from underperformers.
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0:05
Jamie Lane Welcomes Steve Schwab to the STR Data Lab
Welcome.
0:06
Speaker 2
To the STR Data Lab.
Hello and welcome to the STR Data Lab.
I’m Jamie Lane, Chief Economist at Air DNA.
I’m joined today by a very, very special guest.
0:21
We’ve got Steve Schwab, the CEO of Casa Go and Vicasa, joining us today.
Steve, thank you so much for joining and welcome to the show.
0:32
Speaker 1
Jamie, thanks so much for having me.
I’m a big listener and I’m glad to finally get to be on your your podcast and get to.
0:39
Speaker 2
Talk to you.
Yeah.
So we’ve known each other for a while now and have met in in a variety of different sort of conference settings.
I think most recently we were what destined down at Dharm and we were had some great, great dinner out in Rome for DRWS.
1:00
So it’s really great to be able to talk to you now at the beginning of 2026.
1:05
Speaker 1
It’s always great to catch up with you.
I, I think people have seen me on on social media talking about how you’re the secret weapon of the vacation rental industry.
So when Jamie Lane speaks, we all need to shut up and listen.
1:19
Speaker 2
No.
And I, I, I really appreciate all the times you’ve coded me in the past as well.
So but now I, I, I know my listeners, our listeners really want to learn from you and you’ve been one of the major movers in terms of driving industry change in 2025.
1:42
Steve Schwab’s Reflections on the Vacasa-Casago Merger
We’re now eight months past the and close the merger with the Casa and Casa go.
And my initial question for you is, and one, have you had some time yet to sort of reflect on the merger and and if So, what are those reflections and like have you seen it change the day-to-day of in your business that you’ve you’ve built over multiple decades now?
2:09
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Well, you know, like you said, Casa Goza, 25 year old company started when I was 28 years old in just a small little sleepy fishing village down in Mexico and has I’ve been able to build it up to a point where we were ready for something like this major changes.
2:25
You know, merging the two different companies has been a lot has been a challenge.
The complexities that have come with the merger and the transition of pivot of the Casa to a Casa Go model comes with a lot of hard work.
2:41
We’ve got a great team.
The good news is we’re well ahead of schedule for the sales.
We’re about 85% sold out already of the Picasa markets.
I tend to believe that we will be completely sold out by the end of the first quarter with all markets.
2:58
And then the the heavy lift of the transitions, you know, getting everything out of the Vicasa, what they called admin, which was their home built PMS into the two different PMSS that we’ve chosen Streamline, which I was a Co founder of or guesty into those systems operating well and properly.
3:16
And then getting all the existing franchisees up to speed or getting all the new franchisees through Costco University trained up operational, get them getting their feet from underneath them, getting their legs underneath them and getting, you know, getting on with businesses is a big part of what we’re doing for the past eight months.
3:34
So I guess to answer your question, no, I haven’t had time to think about anything except making sure that we’re doing a good job for our our partners, our homeowners, our, you know, our investors and the communities themselves.
3:46
How the Merger Benefited Casago’s Legacy Franchisees
Yeah.
3:46
Speaker 2
And and I absolutely want to ask about some of the integrations with the new franchise owners that have come with these sales.
But I first want to start with like how the integrations landed with the legacy Casa Go partners and franchisees cause soon and you guys were already huge and one of the largest companies in the short term rental space prior to merging with the Casa.
4:14
But this is absolutely and I’m sure had a major impact on them and not only all these new opportunities and just sort of integrate properties into their existing platform, but also unchanged with Casa Go, new software opportunities, new and scale opportunities that have come with and growing this much.
4:35
So how has it landed?
4:37
Speaker 1
You know, it’s landed well, there was a lot of trepidation when it first came out.
Of course, I couldn’t say anything before the deal was done.
So it came as a surprise to a lot of our, our partners.
You know, we had, we had a lot of paperwork that made sure that nobody said anything before the deal was done.
4:54
So you know, some of our of our partners were certainly worried about it.
Would it change cost ago?
Would it change the culture?
Others were incredibly excited about the opportunity to be able to acquire Vicasa inventory and really kind of have a once in a lifetime opportunity to take, you know, their locally owned and operated business and grow it into, you know, all in, in one suite, be able to grow into something that was a large operation.
5:24
So it’s landed well with a lot of them and you know, some of them that were worried and we’re working through that.
But I think the big excitement around it, which was something I was hoping for was the amount of resources that I could bring to our partners, your franchise partners to make them more successful.
5:42
As I was growing Casago with, you know, just out of my own funds, we were privately held, you know, being able to build a fantastic demand engine or to be able to negotiate, have the leverage negotiate really great rates for our partners.
5:59
It was coming, but it wasn’t quite there yet.
And now with the opportunity of resources and training a sophistication of, of you know, of, of our, of our tech team and you know, vicasa.com as a demand engine, I think it’s really exciting to have all of that in our war chest to make our franchise partners more successful than they could be on their own.
6:23
Transitioning to an Owner-Centric Model and Integrating Cultures
Yeah.
What about from the homeowners perspective and clearly things were unchallenged and for a lot of homeowners that were part of the Vicasa program, Costco famously has a very owner centric model that and has led to the great growth that you guys have seen over the years.
6:42
So and our Vicasa line legacy Vicasa owners, do you think they’re seeing the benefit of this owner centric model yet?
Yeah, I think.
6:51
Speaker 1
In those markets where they’ve been able to go meet somebody who’s directly responsible for them, right, Somebody who is the owner of Costco in their market changes the conversation between the homeowner and, you know, and the company that’s has a stewardship over the property.
7:11
You know, we, we have a a franchise partner who always says, if you want to talk to the owner of Costco, you call me, right, because he is the owner of Costco in his market and the buck stops with him.
That’s a very different conversation than what what was being had at Vicasa, right?
7:28
There was layers of, you know, of management.
There was a a customer service team that was in market.
They didn’t necessarily know the marketer been in, in, you know, in that house.
So having somebody they can call have conversations with and and the bus stops with them changes that pretty significantly.
7:49
We’re seeing at once the partners get settled in and the transition is done and they get to know the homeowners.
It’s really beneficial to not only the homeowners themselves, but also the communities that they’re operating in, because those franchise owners live there too, right?
8:08
So that’s their community as well.
So there’s a social responsibility to make sure that they’re good neighbors in that community as we operate.
So I think there’s going to be massive changes for guest owners and the communities themselves.
8:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
What about the like operating cultures because and I assume 2 entirely different cultures with the Casa in Casa Go, there’s been and a lot of people that and with this change in operating model that aren’t part of the new company.
8:39
That’s others that are.
And what’s been the hardest part about keeping morale high when you’re transitioning this and centralized model to the franchise model?
8:51
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know, there’s a there was a lot of fear with the Picasa teammates because they’re like, OK, wait, what’s going to happen?
You’re going to, we’ve already been through several transitions.
You’re going to do what now?
You’re going to take this company and break into pieces and sell it off to people who locally own and operate it.
9:10
And what happens to me, Right.
And that’s a fair question.
And there’s a, you know, of course those they’re going to have feelings about that they should.
It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s scary.
The good news is 90% of the people who are in trans transition to markets are staying with Costco.
9:29
They’ve been hired with Costco, they come on, they get trained and they’re operating in those markets.
So that’s a fantastic, you know, retention rate for our, our, our employees.
And I was really committed from the beginning to make sure to save as many jobs as we could.
9:46
And I’ve told our partners the problem at Picasso wasn’t with the teammates on the ground.
It was configured as a software business instead of a hospitality business.
And that’s really tying the hands of a lot of good people to be able to do the jobs they need to do and make the decisions they wanted to make and empowering them the way they needed to be empowered and be able to have conversations they needed to have.
10:08
And so giving a lot of our of our teammates at the cost of the chance to come over and prove themselves has been proven to be a good move and really grateful for them and the job they’re doing.
And the truth is they had to have a lot of faith in us because we told them half faith is going to work out.
10:28
And for the whole it really, you know, for the, the entirety of this, for 90% of them, it really has.
But they had to have faith that doing their job was going to get them somewhere.
And I’m really grateful that they’ve they’ve stuck with us through those times.
This has been scary for them.
10:42
The Advantages of Joining the Casago Franchise Model
Yeah.
So I want to hear you pitch me, Steve.
So the franchise model is something that the industry is seeing really evolve over the past few years and you guys have been at the forefront of it.
But there’s also been this, I’m really pushed towards local brands and creating strong local brands.
11:04
So if I, Jamie Lane, were starting a property management company today, why would I choose to franchise with Costco versus building my own local brand, getting to pick my own tech stack, being able to choose any sort of revenue management, any I’m really build my company and then really own the 100% equity in my brand verse I’m going with Costco, taking your system and building off of that.
11:35
Speaker 1
Look, there’s no one way to get to success in this in this industry.
But I’ll tell you this that a lot of our property managers who are coming in, you know, have to worry about what property management software they’re on, what to how to choose the softwares, how to negotiate the rates.
11:52
How do you do revenue management?
What revenue management system should I use?
Who’s been vetted?
Am I working with somebody who you know, I can trust?
What kind of resources do I need?
How do I go out and do homeowner marketing?
Is there any place that helped me go out and build my inventory?
How do I drive demand for the inventory I have?
12:09
Is there anybody who can have a conversation with about, you know, about how to do this business and what my financial should look like and compare my, my numbers to make sure that I’m actually hitting, you know, good metrics on that?
Is there something I can call in the middle of the night when suddenly I can’t figure out why this button doesn’t work on, on my PMS?
12:28
Wait, what happened is I’m disconnected from my I’m disconnected from Airbnb and I can’t get my reservations and there’s a problem going on and I can’t get anybody to, to, to help me out if they call and I can go online and look at what other people saying, but I can’t figure it out.
All of those things come into play when it thinks, when you think about what this franchise model offers, You know, we, we, we, we bring you in, we set you up, we make sure that you’re in a protected territory.
12:53
We’re making sure that we help you with Costco University.
You know, we have two different locations and a team of 16 right now do nothing but training for our franchisees.
We have our partners assess managers who are meeting with you weekly, making sure that your, your systems are working right, that you’re following best practices, having conversations with you about, you know, driving forward and making sure that you’re, that you’re, you’re healthy and in your business and in and the way you’re, you’re, you’re operating the resources that we have from, you know, from being able just to negotiate better rates to get discounts to make sure that those the pricing
13:31
you’re getting is correct.
And, and the vendors that we vet along with the, the demand engine of, you know, picasa.com, which will stay as an internally owned OTA, which drives really hundreds of millions of dollars worth of reservations for our, our, our partners.
13:46
So at the end of the day, you do get choices like you don’t necessarily like for instance, breezeway, you can choose breezeway and breezeway is a fantastic option for you.
But if you decide you don’t want to use breezeway, you don’t have to.
If you like Gusty or streamlined, you get to choose which one you you want.
14:04
Would you like to use rumour or not?
That’s fine.
Would you like to use wheelhouse or would you like to use you know, or would you like to use, you know, pacer?
It’s up to you within that.
And the truth is you don’t even necessarily have to use the ones we’ve vetted.
But if you’re within our ecosystem and suddenly you’re having a struggle with something, you can’t figure out something worse.
14:23
We’re trained in that.
We know how to keep you operating not by yourself.
And I’ll tell you this, that when I first started as a property manager in Mexico, I was 28 years old and I didn’t know anybody and I didn’t know how this worked.
And I had nobody to call in a, you know, and I had to learn through getting beat around the head and neck by homeowners and guests until I figured it out.
14:45
The advantages you get with Casago really change that environment.
You know, there’s going to be people who will have a propensity to go and do it on their own, you know, Jamie’s Vacation Rentals and that’s great, you know, and then there’s people who are like, you know, want to be part of a brand, want to be part of Casago, just like some people have, you know, have brands in real estate.
15:07
You know, there’s re/max, there’s Caldwell banker, there’s people who really enjoy being part of a family, being part of a community.
And those are there’s some of those who that doesn’t work for them.
So I would tell you, you have to decide for yourself.
But the advantages of being part of our community is is massive.
15:22
Unpacking the Underestimated Complexity of STR Technology
You’ve mentioned so many things, but what do you think is like one of the number one things that independent founders of property management companies sort of underestimate the complexity of that being part of Costco really solves as part of that of being a franchise?
15:40
Speaker 1
Yeah, you don’t.
I think a lot of people come into property management and don’t understand that the complexities with the tech, the technology now, which we wasn’t there when I got started, but you know, to walk in and be able to run a property management software from day one with inventory Wallace running live with, you know, however many properties you have, it’s it’s a lot.
16:03
Speaker 2
It’s a lot, yeah.
It’s.
16:04
Speaker 1
A lot.
And then remember, you got to integrate it with Airbnb, BRBO, book.com, and then you have to make sure that your accounting is correct.
Then you have to make sure that you’re reconciling all the different OTAs and then revenue management’s plugging in, which is another complexity.
16:21
Making sure your pricing is correct.
You know, going out and doing the research on on air DNA to make sure that you’re, that you’re, you’re, you’re looking at the competitive data properly.
There’s so much that first year or two to try to get up to speed with, to be operationally proficient.
16:37
I think a lot of people see this as a simple business.
I’m going to manage this property.
I’m going to put it on an OTA.
I’m going to clean it.
I’m going to make sure it’s it’s not damaged.
I’m going to rent to the next person.
I’m going to send the owner some money.
And you know what?
16:53
That’s how the world thinks about the short term rental industry.
But the complexities are, you know, a mile deep to actually make that all happen.
17:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, No, I love that in watching this whole transition go down with and Vicasa and you guys selling off all these markets, I largely agree with and and see the theory around everything that you guys are doing.
17:19
Casago’s Franchise Model: Scaling Beyond Dis-economies of Scale
I, I’ve got 1 skeptic question to ask you though.
So the selling off in markets where you guys already have an owner operator, franchisees in those markets seems great.
17:35
Like you’re going to absorb those employees, absorb those listings into a model that already works.
What do you see as the chance of success?
And, and really what are you guys doing to ensure the operators of more like the Thrive Capitals, the Avery’s, the roof stocks that are coming in and they’re operating massive companies now like what Avery and one of the new brands that and has launched as a Costco franchise.
18:02
They’ve got, what, 6000 units.
Do you see them running into the same problem that the Casa saw of sort of centralized management or are they going to be able to pull in this local flavor that your franchisees have really shown as succeeds?
18:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.
So Avari and Team Avari, yeah, they’re, they’re a large company certainly taking on a good bikes.
But you know, there’s a, we’ve brought in a lot of resources for them and they brought a lot of resources in for themselves.
18:36
And I would tell you that, you know, when you’re managing 6000 units, it’s a lot different than managing 30,000 or 40,000 or 50,000.
Yeah, well, yeah, we’ve seen, we’ve made sure to think about what does this look like on the high end of the number of counts, if it can be successful or not.
18:55
And, you know, just like a lot of several property management companies out there at that size, they’re able to, they’re able to be successful at that size.
You know, even even Picasso was successful at that size.
You know, I think when you really start to get into the, into the bigger numbers, you start to struggle with, you start to struggle with operations, with, with support.
19:17
So, yeah, I, I think that we’ve been able to break this down even at our largest partners to a place that with sophistication, you know, with the right capital backing that they’re going to do well.
And I think that they have, you know, Casio University behind them.
19:34
They have the support systems behind them, they have a brand behind them.
And I honestly have thought a lot about how the cross pollination of our smaller mom and pop style property managers who are local, who are, you know, operating, you know, 20 or 30 units.
19:53
And then those who are medium sized, you know, 100 to 500.
And then we have those who are operating, you know, some enterprise.
Business units, I think the cross pollination between all of those in the same community, we’re already starting to see that there’s a lot of conversations have happening amongst them those those who are in smaller or medium are getting conversations with sophisticated operators.
20:15
Those who are sophisticated operators are getting conversations around the community about what does it mean to be local?
What does it mean to have a brand?
What does it mean to be owner centric?
What does it mean to to provide quality over quantity?
How are we thinking about how we decide what our future portfolios look like and why does that matter now?
20:33
So it’s I’m actually really excited about having those conversations across the community that that brings everybody you know up in their in their operational value and knowledge.
20:46
Speaker 2
Yeah.
And have you guys thought about like at what point do you think a franchise system starts to strain under its own weight?
Like is there a point where cost to go could and do you think there’s a point where it plateaus or it gets too big?
21:03
Or do you think it’s and the franchise model can scale?
I’m much bigger or and then I’m what we’ve seen more traditional PM companies been able to do.
21:16
Speaker 1
I think with the franchise model, we’re really getting rid of of a lot of the dis economies of scale.
Service is hard to scale has a certain point because human labor actually cost more to operate the bigger you get, right.
So breaking that down into into, you know, bite sized elements in which it still works underneath, you know, the economics of of our industry is important, but I think when you look at at cost to go as a franchise business, I don’t think we’re anywhere near where our eventual scale will be.
21:55
What’s important to remember is long as we are, they’re providing value for our franchise partners, providing a fair deal in which it’s better to do business with us than without us.
And we’re making sure that our brand is, is, is a brand that they’re proud of and they’re probably part of and that we’re driving the demands of how do they’re going to be able to get more homeowners because they’re well known, right?
22:25
They’re going to be able to bring more guests because of your demand drivers.
They’re going to be able to get better pricing.
I think these are the sort of things at scale for a franchise.
And especially, you know, when we think about international or, you know, being able to have people who are local, understanding the, the culture, understanding the laws, understanding, you know, the, the labor laws of all this, that becomes the key to our success.
22:53
Casago’s Vision for National Brand Recognition and Growth
So you, you mentioned vicasa.com and being one of the largest booking platforms out there and the the growing scale of Costco.
Do you imagine or have hopes that Costco or Vicasa will become like household consumer friendly names or do you see that that and can’t or shouldn’t happen and with the investment needed to be able to build something large enough where we and have name recognition on the consumer side?
23:28
Speaker 1
I would love for Costco to be a, a, a forward facing brand that’s well known throughout, you know, throughout not only the industry, but you know, with the public themselves.
I think that’s a, a, a long road to go down.
I think we’ve got, you know, years before we get there, but, you know, building the internal reality.
23:44
So it becomes the external perception over time with a good brand being something like re/max.
You know, when you look at re/max, you pull into it any town in the USUSA, you see a red, white, blue balloon.
You, you don’t have to ask what re/max is because those say the name.
24:01
You just know that that’s a real estate place, right?
So being on par with that type of brand name recognition Casago would be, you know, would, is, is a goal to, to hit.
I think that’s the way that we’ve structured the franchise model where the local partners are putting money into marketing and at the local level where our marketing fund is there to build brands across, you know, across the nation.
24:29
And that’s part of our charter.
And the way we think about our FDD and, and, and restrictions around how we spend that money to make sure that that’s always going out there.
It’s not, it’s no longer an option to go out and build brand.
It’s part of the DNA.
And so with time, I do think we get there.
24:45
Speaker 2
Yeah.
24:46
Essential KPIs for Measuring Casago’s Business Health
It can’t be the STR Data Lab if I don’t talk about some metrics.
So I’m interested in what are the metrics as CEO of Costco that you’re looking at on a regular basis and day-to-day, weekly, monthly to understand the health of your business?
25:04
And then maybe separately, what are two to three key PKPIS that you’re tracking to sort of judge that the integration of the Casas is, is healthy and, and, and progressing in the right way?
25:19
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Well, both at the franchise level and at the, you know, global level, turn speaks a lot, you know, and I think that was the struggle that the Casa had that their turn was just eating them up.
So it’s speaks to the health of our franchisees and making sure that they’re best in class within their market, you know, that will decide their turn.
25:43
So you know #1 how are we doing a turn?
How are we doing at each market level and how are we doing at the global level?
I think that’s a big part, part of it.
How much demand are we driving for our our franchise partners through, you know, our, our websites, you know, vicasa.com and casago.com?
26:01
You know, what’s our occupancy levels comparatively to the rest of the market?
You know, it’s going to be important and, and that has to be at the local level.
I mean, as you know, segmentation is everything here, right.
You know, we’re thinking about adoption rate, the different vendors.
26:16
We’re really watching that closely.
We want to make sure that we’re, we’re working with the, the best in class vendors who’s going with which vendors and then how, how are they performing comparatively to those who are I’ll work with other vendors, right.
So, yeah, there might be, there might be 4 different revenue managers that we’re working with.
26:36
And then, you know, over time, is there a trend of one that’s maybe either outperforming or underperforming comparatively to those who are who are out there?
Making sure that we’re, we’re following what each franchise market share is, because what we want to do is make sure that what it was appalling behind.
26:56
And we have a, a, a problem.
Making sure that we know as soon as they know or even before they know where, where the struggles are, are happening in, in growth and health of their organization is, is incredibly important to us.
You know, these are a lot of the things that we’re thinking about as we, as we build an organization that’s really forward facing in we’re really forward facing with the health of our franchise partners, making sure that they’re going to be successful because their success is our success, right?
27:27
So if we can continue to do that, not only will we have great partners, but we’ll also have a great reputation of and, and our partners will be the ones who tell people why they should join.
It won’t be me pitching you, it’ll be four or five of my franchise partners who were gathered around you at a conference telling you you should join and all the good things that are happening.
27:47
And that’s the real sales point.
And that’s how traditionally how Casago was built.
We had a lot of referrals.
I think over half of our sales were through referrals of other franchise partners.
27:59
Speaker 2
Well, you’ve just added a new KPI to my dashboard where I’m going to be tracking the cost to go franchisees that are working with their DNA and those that are, aren’t making sure the growth rates turn, revenue metrics are all better for those that are partners versus those that aren’t.
28:16
Speaker 1
I predict those who are work with their DNA will do significantly better.
28:20
Speaker 2
I hope so.
Me too.
28:22
Speaker 1
I do believe that.
28:24
Why Top Property Managers Master the Art of Saying No
So and it’s a great sort of Segway question on and you have seen hundreds of property managers in your 25 years and running cost to go.
So I’m interested like what are two to three attributes and that sort of consistently separate sort of top A tier property managers from those that aren’t A tier or maybe underperforming property managers and using air DNA can’t be the answer, though it’s probably a good one.
28:54
Speaker 1
All right, then I’ll go to #2 It’s just, it’s really just one metric that comes to the top of mind or one thing that that changes, you know, the success is the ability to say no.
A lot of property managers will say yes to almost any property.
29:14
You know, it’s some property manager will say yes to anything that even some things are even dangerous and then try to get people to fix it up, right.
The top tier property managers say no to inventory that doesn’t fit their portfolio, you know, and, and making sure that you curate properties that that guests want so that you’re not having properties that just eat you alive.
29:36
You’re managing but not making money yet, which I’ve made that mistake before.
Making sure that you can say no to a homeowner when they want to do something that’s unsafe or doesn’t, doesn’t fit your values or, you know, or making sure that you can say no to a homeowner or a home that treats your, your staff poorly because they’ll, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll turn your staff out.
30:01
And that’s the most important people in the in your ecosystem and making sure to be able to say no to guests who want to abuse the property because you think you need the occupancy, but you’re just going to end up beating that that property to death.
30:17
So the number one differentiator is the operators who can say no.
30:23
Speaker 2
And how much and are you guys able to help those franchise operators?
I know and how and when to say no because it’s you guys have visibility and you probably know when someone’s onboarding a property that probably isn’t a good fit when you see and they’re doing things that probably are leading them astray.
30:46
Is that something that you guys are proactively and helping franchisees like understand or is that something you really leave them?
They’re independently owned up and operated and companies that and they’ve got to learn and make those mistakes themselves.
31:03
Speaker 1
Well, at the end of the day, it is their business.
You know, what’s important to understand and what a lot of people ask when they’re thinking about signing up as part of Casago, is this still my own business?
Do I get the choices to make my own decisions?
And yes, you do, you know, as long as it’s a safe property, these sort of things we can’t tell you not to.
31:21
But having, you know, we have weekly meetings with our our franchise partners.
We’re closely reviewing properties with them.
We’re having discussions with them around business development, curation of their portfolio.
There’s a, if you haven’t spoken to us at least two or three times this week, then you’re not picking up the phone or showing up to your meetings.
31:40
This isn’t something where, you know, we only contact you when it’s time to pay the, you know, the royalties.
We’re constantly working with our our partners to make sure that they’re finding success within that.
So yes, we do help them curate that, but we also understand that this is their business.
31:57
And I think that through discussions, you know, with the partners, the orange meetings that we have, you know, the materials at Costco University, the constant, the constant support they’re having with all the different parts of Costco, It it, it certainly helps them understand that in a way that I don’t think they would without it.
32:18
Yeah.
32:19
Principle-Based Leadership and the Orange Values Culture
And and I I’ve heard you mention now the sort of your orange values, the orange meetings multiple times.
For those that don’t know what that is, can you explain what it is and and how it’s and helpful how you found it?
32:36
Elf over your business?
Sure.
32:39
Speaker 1
When the first time I took over a larger company than myself, I started hiring faster than I could actually have conversations with the team and we had ran a solid little business up to about 60 units and suddenly I took on 300 units in one day.
32:55
They, the, the company had left town in the middle of the night to everybody’s money, taking all the payroll.
They’re just gone.
This is down in Mexico.
And so we were hired.
We couldn’t, we didn’t even have enough people to run all the front desks.
So we were hiring faster that we could train.
33:11
And I started watching a lot of problems happen.
And I sat down and started thinking about why is this different than other organizations I’ve belonged to?
And how do I catch back up to getting my voice, you know, to be able to speak into what we’re trying to do here?
33:27
And I went back to some thoughts about being the special operations with the range of Italian different different organs that belong to and they all had to creed.
So I sat down, I started writing out a set of principles.
And these principles are really just guidelines on, on how we should make decisions that honor our values.
33:47
You know, like thinking about like I am the owner’s advocate.
I’ll make all decisions based on the owner’s best interest.
Well, if you can make a decision around that honors that, you’re always going to make a good decision.
And that’s part of the vision.
So I put together in a little booklet called the orange booklet.
34:03
You know, there’s each letter of orange stands for something we talk about every single day.
But you know, if you, if you understand your values, you build guidelines around those values to help people make decisions, you start to, you start to, to, to let people make decisions on those, on those principles.
34:27
Over time, that becomes a social norm in which the organization starts to make decisions around those principles outside the oversight of leadership.
When good decisions are being made, you end up building trust.
34:43
And when you have teammates that you can trust that you get autonomy and you get scale.
And so at the foundation of this is a principle based leadership in which people are making decisions outside the oversight of leaders and that builds the brand becomes that because that becomes the internal reality of good decision making that grows a business.
35:05
And I think that’s been a lot of the success of Casago.
35:08
Speaker 2
How long has that and sort of stayed and lasted in terms in in the test of time?
Like, is this something that you’ve had for 10 years, five years?
Like how long have you been working with this?
35:23
Speaker 1
It’s coming up on the company’s been around for 25 years.
It’s been around for about 20 years or so.
It had to go back exactly.
But yeah, it’s been about 20 years.
I actually made myself like nauseous a few times trying to think about what should be in this and, and really thinking about it.
35:42
In fact, actually my a funny story is my general manager of Mexico who’s been with me for, you know, the whole nearly the entire 25 years when I bought her this little book.
I’m like, hey, yeah, I want you to give this out to all the, you know, everybody, all the teammates and I want to talk about it every single day.
35:58
Just a quick conversation and then whatever it is business and, you know, and our stand up meetings to get on with it.
She’s like, this is the stupidest idea I’ve ever seen in my entire life.
And she’s like, this is this is also what kind of ego manic are you?
There’s a picture of you in here.
You’re going to make us all carry around a little booklet with your picture in it.
I was like, just give it a try.
36:15
And it took about 6 or 8 months and you know, we had people quit.
People said this is a cult.
I quit.
They threw it in the garbage and they quit, which is actually a good thing.
And then one day she had a couple different experiences where she was watching people on their own take out the book or quote the book or teach other people about the book about how they’re making decisions.
36:37
And she came to me, she’s like, it’s working.
She said, I hate to tell you this, but it’s working.
And she became, she went from, she went from compliance to conviction that day.
And she’s been a big, you know, she’s been a big leader culturally ever since.
And so making sure people have conversations around the principles so they could to own the principles themselves builds a community, builds a language.
36:59
And you know, and I think that’s, I think that’s how you build cohesion.
If you go to when Matt Landau travelled all of the different markets in Mexico, he’s like, it’s so strange.
Everywhere I go, they’ve never met each other, but they’re speaking the same language.
You can hear this, the same conversations happening in multiple markets and there might be a little difference in the way they explain it, sort of think about it, but they’re of the conversations that builds a brand.
37:25
And I think that’s what the Orange Keto does.
And by the way, if anybody’s listening, we’d like a copy of it.
Just, you know, direct mail me on or DM me on LinkedIn.
I’ll, I’ll send you a, I’ll send you a copy and give it to everybody.
37:39
Steve Schwab’s Guide to Revenue Management for Everyone
Yeah.
And Speaking of another language I’ve heard you or seen you explain is the language of revenue management.
You, you were nice enough to share your book with me, revenue management for the rest of us.
And it really felt like a guide of like understanding the language of revenue management and how to think about it, how revenue managers are going to think about it, explain it, and then how as a owner and you should be thinking about it within the and confines of your business.
38:11
And, and we’ve been working a lot and with an air DNA on revenue management and some future products.
But I actually bought it for my entire team a copy.
And it’s really helped them sort of think about how property manager should and, and probably do think about revenue management, how it’s and a piece of how they’re running the business and how they’re bringing in metrics on a day-to-day basis.
38:38
So it’s you.
You’ve got a good knack for explaining languages in that way.
38:44
Speaker 1
Thank you.
Yeah, I really enjoyed doing that.
You know, that came from we had a a revenue manager we were all dependent upon and he got sick and one day he was just gone.
And we were all like, what do we do now?
And so that book came from the idea that the rest of us really don’t understand revenue management at the deep levels, that we should hire revenue manager.
39:04
What’s their role?
What question should we be asking?
How often should you be getting a report?
What should be in those reports and what do all the works mean?
And it’s been helpful.
Thank you for thank you for doing that.
And I’m really glad you enjoyed it.
When I heard that you that you enjoyed it, it it was validation that I pulled it off.
39:23
Speaker 2
I still don’t understand how you find time for things like that.
I’m sure that’s it.
Took a few years.
A labor of love, right?
Yeah, it is.
39:33
Speaker 1
As a matter of fact, but it’s it’s something I think it’s important for our industry to be able to have a conversation about it.
I knew it was important for me when I didn’t understand.
39:41
Speaker 2
It yeah.
39:42
Final Reflections on the Merger and Casago’s Future
So we’re coming up on time and I, I want to be respectful of your time.
So and sort of and some closing questions.
I’m, I’m thinking through the conversation today.
39:58
A lot of it was on the merger with Casa Go and Vicasa.
I’m it was definitely the big news, I would say positive news of the industry.
There was a lot of negative negativity out there.
There was a lot of changes the industry saw, the broader economy saw.
40:17
But I think the integration that it looks like you’ve pulled off is going to be one of the big success stories of 2025 when we look back a few years from now.
And maybe I want to ask you this question again a few years from now.
40:33
But sitting here today, would you make the same decision to to do this merger or would you have done something differently now sitting back on what these last 12 months have sort of brought you?
40:47
Speaker 1
Yeah.
No, of course I would make the decision again.
I think that it’s a positive move for the industry, like you said, and I think it’s awesome move for my franchise partners and for those homeowners.
And it really helps me fulfill the dream of bringing the right kind of resources to property managers to be successful and have a community around them.
41:11
So it’s been my life’s work and I’m really grateful to have this opportunity to help influence, you know, this part of the industry with this specific transaction to to create something new and dynamic and to help out.
41:28
But Casa find new foot footing on a different path.
41:31
Speaker 2
That’s great.
So, and if people want to reach out to you, if they want to find more about being part of the Costco system, what’s the best way to do that?
41:39
Speaker 1
Yeah, feel free to always reach out to me at steve@costco.com or on LinkedIn.
Just Steve Schwab, always happy to to have a conversation with anybody who’s interested.
41:50
Speaker 2
That’s great, Steve.
Thanks so much for joining today.
41:53
Speaker 1
Jamie, thanks so much for having me.
Really appreciate it.
